Multi Monitor Support

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EDB
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby EDB » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:56 pm

Go annoy your mother with all your negativity.
Grow up.
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MarkRebuck
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby MarkRebuck » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:08 pm

Regarding all the "The longer you have to wait, the better it will be." talk...

There is another very popular expression in the software industry: "Done is better than perfect."

Not everything ages like wine. Unshipped software usually ages like fish. The Duke Nukem Forever references are perfectly on point here.

Cheers,
-Mark Rebuck

timbaeyens
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby timbaeyens » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:07 pm

I have been thinking about the closer - wrap-around screen setup with trackir and stretched periphery a little more.

This could only work if one would keep eyes looking straight ahead. Unfortunately we scan with our eyes, and the periphery gets projected straight into our eyes when looking at the sides. Our brain immediately settles for this 'new' correct projection. For this to work in a sim, it would need eyetracking as well as adaptive projection mapping synchronized with eye scanning.

Bottomline: forget it until Condor V4 or later.

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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby Slartibartfast » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:34 am

You've lost me there Tim.
Why does the system need to track eye movement?
If the 'wrap around' projection were perfect you possibly wouldn't even have a need for TrackIR, let alone eye-tracking.

How do you think the image should be rendered differently depending on which part of the screen you are focusing on? I don't quite follow what you're saying.

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Slartibartfast
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby Slartibartfast » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:40 am

I also just happened across a video about visulising different projection systems in Quake. It's using a packate known as "Blinky"
and the project can be found on GitHub:
Image
https://github.com/shaunlebron/blinky

And here's a link to the demonstration video I came across:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9v_XN7Wxh8

janjansen
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby janjansen » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:12 am

I think Tim wants to adapt the projection based on where you're looking at. In that video you linked (which is is awesome btw), you can see there is a section in the middle of the screen thats not distorted. It think tim wants that section in the middle of your vision, so where your looking at, even if its a monitor edge or side monitor. I dont think that would work; even though eye tracking is quite feasible, I even experimented with it, since we do indeed scan all the time, if the image is warped accordingly all the time, you'll get sick in minutes. More over, every time you wanted to look at something in your peripheral vision, its position would move as the projection would be altered.

Combining it with track ir might be more feasible. THe idea would be if you turn your head enough that you're facing your left monitor, that monitor would become the center of the projection, being undistorted. THat might work better, but it would still be weird I think. you're probably better off with a VR solution at that point. And I'll gladly settle for a 'static' non linear projection until then.
Last edited by janjansen on Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

janjansen
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby janjansen » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:31 am

MarkRebuck wrote:The Duke Nukem Forever references are perfectly on point here.


EDB probably doesnt know Duke Nukem forever, maybe he's too young to remember how many of us waited 15 years for it, and thus didnt understand my reference to it. But thats ok, Im pretty sure OXO knows it.

Thing is, I have no opinion on when V2 could or should ship, like everyone else, I dont mind waiting and I'll see it when it happens, Im not asking about the schedule or imploring they add some features that could delay it. I just wonder if they intend to support certain hardware configurations, as this might impact people's purchase decision, for things like single large monitor vs multiple monitors or even saving up for a VR set instead. The only assumption Im making, is that V2 is going to be released before a new monitor bought today will be obsolete or worn out.

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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby OXO » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:58 am

MarkRebuck wrote:There is another very popular expression in the software industry: "Done is better than perfect."


Those fools are the ones who put out faulty software. We do not subscribe to that philosophy.

We have a list of features, and they will be done before we release Condor2.

Like most developers, we also have a bigger list of additions which are waiting for future versions.
OXO,
Condor Team

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EDB
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby EDB » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:27 pm

janjansen wrote:
MarkRebuck wrote:The Duke Nukem Forever references are perfectly on point here.


EDB probably doesnt know Duke Nukem forever, maybe he's too young to remember how many of us waited 15 years for it, and thus didnt understand my reference to it. But thats ok, Im pretty sure OXO knows it.

search.php?keywords=Duke+Nukem
You are only annoying people. Go find another hobby.

The developers have said Condor V2 is now in Alpha, so new stuff won't be added. Wait for the finished product. Till then, have fun in Condor V1.
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From the developers : Condor V2 is now in Alpha

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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby Slartibartfast » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:33 pm

janjansen wrote:I think Tim wants to adapt the projection based on where you're looking at. In that video you linked (which is is awesome btw), you can see there is a section in the middle of the screen thats not distorted.


Oh, I see. So the thinking would be to stay with the 'rectilinear projection' but reinterpret the center of that projection based on where the person is looking. I agree with you, I think that would be even more nauseating than simply looking at the stretched image. Of course, if multiple view-ports were to be implemented then everything would be perfect right where it is and there would be no need to adjust anything no matter where the person looked. Likewise, the same would be true in VR.

And yeah, that video is good but the 'demo' is a lot better. The GitHub page has pre-compiled binaries for you to download (saving you the need to compile anything yourself), so if you found the video interesting I'd recommend having a play with the demo. Personally, while the demonstrated view of 360° was interesting to see I found setting the FoV to 120° more useful myself, but your mileage may vary ;)

janjansen
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby janjansen » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:37 pm



So, DNF had been brought up twice in the past 5 years. Your point is what, exactly?

You are only annoying people. Go find another hobby.


I think you're the only one annoyed, and frankly, annoying in this thread.
For sure you're the only one that's aggressive and insulting. How about you try some of your own medicine.

janjansen
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby janjansen » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:41 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:. Personally, while the demonstrated view of 360° was interesting to see I found setting the FoV to 120° more useful myself, but your mileage may vary ;)


Clearly, but I found it impressive that 360° even worked, and appeared playable on a single screen. 120 degrees on 3 screens would be easy then ;).

phercek
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby phercek » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:42 pm

janjansen wrote:Clearly, but I found it impressive that 360° even worked, and appeared playable on a single screen. 120 degrees on 3 screens would be easy then ;).

I have already seen it posted somewhere. Maybe it was not this message board. But if the goal is to fight against distortions then that is not the way to do it :D

One must match real and rendering FOVs and the projection surface with the monitor surface for the best result. Other option would be to use a bit more complicated shape than cylinder to compensate for mismatched FOVs. But cylinder is good enough. I think it gives errors in the range of few percent only (when set up well).

timbaeyens
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby timbaeyens » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:59 pm

janjansen wrote:


So, DNF had been brought up twice in the past 5 years. Your point is what, exactly?

You are only annoying people. Go find another hobby.


I think you're the only one annoyed, and frankly, annoying in this thread.
For sure you're the only one that's aggressive and insulting. How about you try some of your own medicine.


Pfew, glad you reacted to this exceptionally dumb BS. I would have been less polite... ;)

janjansen
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby janjansen » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:48 am

phercek wrote:One must match real and rendering FOVs and the projection surface with the monitor surface for the best result. Other option would be to use a bit more complicated shape than cylinder to compensate for mismatched FOVs. But cylinder is good enough. I think it gives errors in the range of few percent only (when set up well).


Indeed, and Ill be over the moon if V2 just supports either cylindrical mapping or multiple rectilinear viewport rendering, but its interesting to see what could be done. Particularly since I dont see myself playing a flight sim with a VR set for hours at a time any time soon, so I suspect I'll still use multiple monitors if/when V3 arrives. Then again, Im not 100% sure all this can be done with current GPU hardware. Quake I think is rendered mostly (if not only) in software , which may explain why they chose it as basis for that demo.


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