Condor 2.0? honesty please

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sebbil
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby sebbil » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:19 pm

There are several other gliding sims ...so its not a problem, condorsim
has been overtaken since a year or two, so its not best ...it was the best in 2012 :)
I am also microlight, PPL and glider pilot since 1992, ASK 13,Ka8,Ka6,Mistral, ASK21,hornet ... so i know what i write

Who ever fly in the new AeroFly 2 with VR, only lough about condor sim.
So > I < dont need condor , its only the possibility / chance for the developers that they dont evolve past the market/users.
In an few months / years ? NOBODY simulate a car- or flight- sim without VR.
So have a nice time, see u in the sky

jjmaloss
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby jjmaloss » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:38 pm

A good way to sink a product is to give in on non serious prospects requests (politics). As a software developer, I say firmly that now it is time to finalise the development of Condor 2 as it is. Some prospects play games with the vendor making crazy demands that the latter will ''fulfil'' but that will destabilise the entire project by inserting kludge after kludge. And at the end, the prospect will say ''I do not buy because a comma is misplaced in the interface'' (the pitiful excuse). That's why the developers should *not* give into this kind of request such as VR if it is not in the pipe.

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OXO
Condor Team
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby OXO » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:01 pm

Thanks jj( and others) for your support.

Sebbil, give it up. We don’t need your negativity
OXO,
Condor Team
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Sephiroth0014
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby Sephiroth0014 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:12 pm

Just for information, Condorsim is about the french community. The simulator is "Condorsoaring" or "Condor 2"
VR is just a fashion .... Just like last year, it was 3D, today we do not hear about it anymore .....

Inflatables neighbors are everywhere .....

~400$US for graphic card...(Graphic Card)
~500$US for Oculus VR (Occulus) OR ~700$CAD for Vive HTC (Vive HTC)
And you don't have yet the rest of computer if you have to upgrade it......

VR isn't my priority at all, just good flights with real sensations as we know in condorsoaring.
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Farlander
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby Farlander » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:24 pm

It makes me, and other VR users angry when some people act like VR should be prioritized over everything else. It only leads to this where people think VR users are a bunch of whining players. After getting VR i will never fly a VR compatible sim on a monitor anymore, but i still play games on monitors otherwise. it's not like you can't do both. There are people here and there spreading information about what VR is and isn't purely from some articles they have read.

Yes, i am looking at you. We don't need a war, but VR isn't just "fashion" like you call it. You don't need to look at it as a threat to you in any way. The only reason you don't hear about it anymore is because you don't want to find it. There are more active VR users now than there has ever been. As far as prices, if we go by US prices the cost is considerably less than what you suggest. current prices i found was 399$ for Oculus (i've seen it go lower than that), and guessing from pictures of Condor 2 i would never think you'd need any more than a GTX 1060 (+-250$). that's 650$ compared to the 900$ you suggested.

For comparison a high quality (popular in that area) flight stick, hotas warthog, costs 400$ alone. you're still going to need a gpu for that too. And unless you only play Condor most would probably buy a 1060. A popular mid-high level steering wheel, the T300 costs roughly 300usd. Trackir is 150$ alone, for only head tracking. Something that also VR does, with smoother tracking.

I'm 100% with you that VR isn't a priority over the actual development of Condor, but VR is much more than just a fashion. This post is already too long, but the point is that compared to all of these devices, it's not actually that more expensive and the advantages over Trackir are massive.

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JBr
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby JBr » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:55 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't VR support currently product specific? I.e. you can't play Oculus enabled games on Vive and if you want to support both, you need to implement it for both platforms separately? Wouldn't VR support make more sense if there was some universal API or native product non-restrictive support in DirectX?
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sadatoni
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby sadatoni » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:24 pm

I'll wait for holographic displays.

Until then, I'll enjoy Condor and then Condor 2.

:D
N5503T CN(0OU)

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John Ferguson

Farlander
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby Farlander » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:05 pm

Seems something went wrong when i posted.. oh well, JBr. I don't think that is the case generally. AFAIK the SteamVR API supports both oculus and Vive equally. And as such most games on steam has support for both. For example il-2 BoS. However on the Oculus store i think you might be correct. but i'm unsure how difficult it actually would be to develop those products to work with both units as i remember there was a "hack" made by some of the community to make all those products work on the vive.

Generally i don't think the implementation is so hard, there is a guy who used SteamVR API (i think) to get both Vive and Oculus support in an old game called RBR (rally game from 2004). I think the SteamVR API has become the sort of "universal" for VR of this reason (and because Steam uses it..)

edit:
I think the big problem with older games generally is DirectX version.. iirc you need dx 10 or 11 for VR support i think, and Condor atm is dx 7 i believe.

Sephiroth0014
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby Sephiroth0014 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:11 pm

It makes me, and other VR users angry when some people act like VR should be prioritized over everything else.

This is the point !! And that's why I'm posting !
So sorry if I insulted you saying that VR is just a fashion, but it's looks like when I read something like.... "its only the possibility / chance for the developers that they dont evolve past the market/users."

But please, just learn how to read please !!!
The only reason you don't hear about it anymore is because you don't want to find it. There are more active VR users now than there has ever been.

I 've never said that we don't hear about VR !!!

current prices i found was 399$ for Oculus

Sorry my mistakes... I'm on $CAD and just forget to convert....
But for the information only, outside of the US, it's always 529$CAD or 450€... (with or without shipping ?? )
And we are not all doing $500 clear or more per week.... But that's another debate....
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tom eagles
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby tom eagles » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:16 pm

Ok. Chris will probably get pissed off for me wading in here but this has to be said.

Condor has always been an indy developer Sim, simple fact of the matter is there are really two main driving forces behind Condor, Uros and Chris, the rest of us chip in as and when we can on individual pieces, from modelling to working on textures 3d material settings to Scenery Design, not a single one of the team has Condor as a full time job, nor does it have the development budget of anything like any of the sims mentioned so far.

I thought I knew the amount of work that went into it, since starting on bits and pieces in January 2017 give or take, I am only shocked by what has been developed by such a tiny team of part timers.

About it being the best in 2012 and now its not lets set a few things straight, Condors roots have always been in the Multiplayer field, why do you think the sim is as it is and not a bunch of 4k photographic sceneries? The simple fact is you wouldnt be able to run a 4k scenery with the weather dynamics, flight dynamics and 31 other models plus tugs plus clouds etc etc etc. That condor incorporates, if ya looking for that kind of spec then everyone would need to really boost their Computers. And I have never seen anyone say that the Flight Dynamics or weather modelling of any other Sim surpass Condor, certainly none of the mainstream ones I have tried. Why do you think the community is still reasonably strong, why so much interest in V2, because despite what you may think the majority of others think otherwise, take for example all sceneries still being developed? Seem like the sim is dead?

VR just adds even more of a drain on computer resources, if you want that then maybe Condor isnt for you, or as some have mentioned they use VR where its supported and when is not they dont. No one has said it wont be supported but there are currently way too many options out there for a small team to integrate, the team doesnt rush stuff out on a whim, it looks at something and says "can we do this currently as well as everything else we do?", if no it gets shelved until a point in the future when the right amount of resources can be applied to the feature in a way that would not have people whining because it wasnt done properly or why didnt you support this platform etc.

One of the major reasons I can see why info has been held back in the past, is simply the amount of negativity by a few in the forums when things do get announced, because their "Pet" function wont be included on release day!

Anyway thats my 0.2c
Last edited by tom eagles on Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Farlander
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby Farlander » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:26 pm

learn how to read
haha, yes i see this now, - I'm sorry :P

As for the price.. i'm a student so i'm not exactly rich, but i bought oculus second hand, so it was quite a bit cheaper because it only included the preorder set. which is the headset + 1 ir camera and no controllers. Obviously not everyone has the money to spend on expensive gear, and so that is kind of my point, that VR isn't a priority for the game. Personally i just hope that we get it sometime after release when it doesn't disturb other progress so much. This is the first gen of VR devices, and we've already seen a price drop of ~300usd or so. Hopefully as new generations come it'll be cheap enough that it is affordable for a much bigger audience :)

Farlander
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby Farlander » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:33 pm

tom eagles wrote:Ok. Chris will probably get pissed off for me wading in here but this has to be said.
...


Oh what a mess i have started, i'm sorry.. I think i'll leave this discussion here, i agree with all your points ...

Edit: don't mind me, i should learn to read.

Sephiroth0014
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby Sephiroth0014 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:51 pm

Farlander wrote:don't mind me, i should learn to read.

Lolllll English is not my mother tongue (or as said one of the guys from "Spinal Tape" : English is not my mother's tongue)
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RodNoc123
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby RodNoc123 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:11 pm

Personally, I'm hoping for an improved weather model, improved flight physics (if even necessary), new planes (curious about the double seaters and their possibilities), maybe the possibility of incorporating real airspaces in competitions to add to the realism - and last but not least easier to use interfaces with nav computers.

To me, Condor is mainly a training tool for real-life for cross-country soaring - and some safety training. For that, VR goggles would be utterly useless, as I want and need to see the maps I'm actually using in real flight (iGlide, paper maps and personal notes). VR goggles would only be a massive hindrance for looking at these. What I want from a flight sim are realistic flight physics, a realistic weather model and the possibility to train, given all the aforementioned, basic steering patterns simultaneously with cross-country flight strategy.

Personally, I see a possible use of VR goggles for basic training and aerobatics. But for cross-country soaring, VR would be useless.

Other sims such as Aerofly FS might provide a high degree of immersion due to their high resolution sceneries and especially VR. But other than that sensation of immersion, you get neither a weather model that's anywhere close to Condor, let alone real weather, nor can you do any kind of realistic cross-country soaring with it. To that end, Aerofly FS is just useless. For that reason, Aerofly FS is and will remain just a "game" to tickle the "sugar spike" of that feeling of immersion, while the qualities of Condor elevate it far above anything resembling "just" a game.

For the reasons stated, Condor V1 is still way ahead of Aerofly et al.

Simple test: Try to do a 350km task in complex airspace territory in Aerofly with VR. Personally, I've had it with that experience after about 20 minutes. The weather model and the VR goggles make it simply impossible.

If you want immersion, do the real thing. If you want good "ground training", use Condor.

janjansen
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Postby janjansen » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:32 am

Im going to add my 2 cents in favor of VR, even though I dont even own a set. First of all, you dont need a vive or Oculus. There are cheaper alternatives. For the price of a few beers you can buy something that will turn your smartphone in to a cheap VR set. something like this:
https://www.gearbest.com/cardboard/pp_636912.html
For ~€200, or about the price of a monitor, you can get this actual VR set:
https://www.gearbest.com/pc-headset/pp_ ... html?wid=4
Spend €100 extra, and you can get 4K resolution (double that of an oculus):
https://www.gearbest.com/pc-headset/pp_423476.html

I havent seen any reviews of the first set yet, but by all accounts, the 4K one is really not bad at all. What you dont get is controllers (needless to say, VR controllers arent needed for a flightsim) or 6DoF; you only get 3DoF but that is all you need for condor (V1 doesnt support 6DoF with a trackir either, because supposedly you cant change your head position when strapped in).

As for adding load to the PC; it shouldnt be very different from running on a 4K monitor (or a triple screen setup). Anyone who owns a VR set or triple screen setup will have a videocard that is way faster than the recommended performance level suggested for V2. I dont believe this will be an issue.

As for the ones saying VR is just a fad; I dont think it is. It might be overhyped and for many games or apps, it may not make a ton of sense yet, but if there is one type of game that really benefits from VR, then its flight sims. Its about the only kind of game that people will build cockpits for with curved projection screens. Its the only kind of game where people really use TrackIR. How many of you use a trackir? I bet a lot, and those that use it will tell you it makes an enormous difference. And yet hardly anyone uses trackir for anything else, the company behind it hasnt released a new product in like 10 years. You might say that was a fad, but its absolutely perfect for flight sims, and the same goes for VR.

I dont know how hard it is to add support for VR. I'm not even sure you really need to do anything when you use directx 11+. We have been using Condor V1 with triple screens and 4K resolution, even in 3D. Despite the fact those things didnt exist when V1 was released and directx7 supports none of that. Here is to hoping we can make V2 work with VR similarly.


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