Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Discussion related to the Condor...

Moderators: Uros, OXO, GR

kingmaddog
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:48 pm

Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby kingmaddog » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:52 pm

Hi All,

I fly gliders for real, just made my first 5 solo flight last season. My question is simple... Is condor a good way to train in the winter period, learn the thermals for instance. How realistic is it?

If it is im planning to but the t16000m thrustmaster set inc the pedals of coarse

Kind Regards,

KindMaDDoG [NL] :D

pstrzel
Posts: 273
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:02 am
Location: Utah

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby pstrzel » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:24 pm

Yes, it's plenty realistic for thermaling and if you're using pedals it will also help with muscle memory. Of course, it will not simulate things such as a sudden gusts or wind shear on takeoff or landing.
Image

tberry
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:10 pm

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby tberry » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:45 pm

Yes, particularly with rudder pedals. It is also very useful for recreating all of the conditions necessary to practice aeronautical decision making such as how far to press on, or whether to stop and climb. Fly some of the online contests if you want to find out how well it works.

Our club flies a weekly task together to teach these skills to newbies and experienced pilots. The new pilots get to experience XC flight without the initial hassle and are much more prepared for the tasks in the real thing when they begin training.

janjansen
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:26 pm

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby janjansen » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:28 pm

tberry wrote: It is also very useful for recreating all of the conditions necessary to practice aeronautical decision making such as how far to press on, or whether to stop and climb.


Im gonna disagree on this. In condor, you can out land just about everywhere (even on ~45 degree sloped mountains). And if you do crash, you just hit refly, there are no real consequences. That allows you to press on FAR further than you ever would or should IRL. Particularly a novice pilot. Just about every online mountain race I participate in, I will do at least one "ballistic pass" over a mountain ridge. IE, not having enough energy to properly fly over it, i will dive and pull up over the ridge. Sometimes with my gear down should I touch the top of the ridge. Not exactly how you'd do it IRL.

Don't get me wrong, condor is of course still an excellent training tool, just dont apply your condor experience in "pressing on" to real life gliding.

tberry
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:10 pm

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby tberry » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:16 am

Of course, it depends on how you want to use it. When I'm flying seriously, I draw a conscious line between "In real life, my flight would be over now" and "Let's experiment to see what happens in a simulator."

As long as you are very deliberate about using it in that manner, the XC decision making is identical. Minus the sweat and uncomfortable feeling in your gut from real life!

User avatar
Flightbase
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:44 pm
Location: Uelzen
Contact:

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby Flightbase » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:57 am

Well, there is no answer like yes/no. There are many things a simulator can`t do - and there are many things a simulator is good for.
I know some people really boosting their student-skills in terms of cross wind landings or such. I know (real life) world championship contestens beeing hard to beat in condor.
But it`s still a simulator. An old but good one.
I had a flight student, claiming in the debrifing after a real life flight: "but this worked in Condor".

So there is a big range from a great way to practise (good) things up to "kill yourself" by practising bad to worse techniques.

In any case: Condor won`t ruin your pilot skills. You may try flying in the alps, you may practise centering thermals, you may even practise flying a thermal with 10+ other gliders free of a real risk.

No matter what, I`d always recommend Condor after all.
The first time you'll get a Microsoft product, that doesn't suck, will be the day they start producing vacuum cleaners.

DanD
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:58 am
Location: Kanata(Ottawa), Canada

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby DanD » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:00 pm

One things I've seen students do is develop poor look-out skills in the simulator, and be unsafe in a real glider as a result. If you watch this, and continue shoulder checks, it does help quite a bit.
Image

User avatar
Paul_UK
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:05 pm
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby Paul_UK » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:25 pm

I agree with a lot that has been said. Utilising Condor prior to taking up gliding for real also shortened the length of time it took me to fly solo. What it didn't teach me was the correct way to do things. Now I know the correct procedures to follow I ensure I do these in Condor to the best of my ability, i.e. proper circuits, speed management, all checks (CBSIFTCBE, HASSLL, TUF, WULF, WSSSSO etc just so they become ingrained). I still go to fly every week as long as the weather allows me however as currently I'm working towards my Bronze so I need experience. I passed my theory a few weeks ago so now I just need to up my solo flights and fly my Bronze skills test.

I then have to work on the XC element. This is what I have been using Condor for recently. I plot a route on my chart flying out from my club and then fly the route with no PDA and turn points to show at 2nm. I am lucky that the South UK scenery is detailed enough to pick out what I need to to ensure I stay on route. I stick to the altitude restrictions as per my chart and avoid any areas I should. I'm now feeling a lot more confident about flying and using a chart at the same time. I do need to trust my maths a little more when it comes to calculating for a safe final glide. Today's flight saw me flying over the finish point with way too much extra altitude. I'd done the calcs and they said I'd make it and I should have trusted them rather than grabbing a bit more height at the next thermal. That said I know I will er on the safe side on my first XC anyway.

One thing that would be useful in Condor is if you could alter your altimeter whilst flying. I've now set mine to QNH in settings. Maybe that'll be a feature of Condor 2? EDIT: I just took a look at the key assignments out of curiosity......The function is there, now I know! :mrgreen:

I also use Condor for practising my ridge flying as down in South UK by my airfield there are no ridges that are accessible to me at the moment. I also experiment with thermal centering techniques and at the moment can't say I have one perfected. I manage to centre but I'm sure I could do it quicker. I think it'll help a little though in real life you have added sensation which I am hoping aids centering further.

As someone mentioned the thing I find myself not doing is frequent lookout. I do when flying for real but don't want that to drop off through use of Condor. I've started trying to use my mouse to look around as that is more fluent than the hat switch. It's quicker for example when reversing a turn and wanting to check in the opposite direction quickly.
Bronze by Spring......I hope!
Bronze C completed 3-4-2017 - Hoping worked :mrgreen:

timbaeyens
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:31 am

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby timbaeyens » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:48 pm

Use track iR or Opentrack or similar with a NIR set of LED's and a NIR optimised camera; this makes you look around as in RL.

This is just an example: goo.gl/UVeZTx

I dont want to miss this setup anymore.

sisu1a
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Bay Area, California (USA)

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby sisu1a » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:49 pm

Get a MSFF II from ebay and pick up a set of VKB rocker pedals... kinematics are important and both of those provide adequate approximations of what you really feel in a sailplane. TrackIR or equivalent cobbled together system is also a must.

Image
http://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-t-rudders-mk-iv

If those are too expensive, you can also make your own pedals pretty easy, mine are a hacked Logitech Attack III, a pair of Aeronca pedals off ebay, some pushrods from a crashed Sisu and some scrap metal made using a drill press and miter saw.

Image
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15497 ...and there are other examples on this forum

kingmaddog
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby kingmaddog » Fri May 05, 2017 2:31 pm

Well this is a late reply...

Thanks for all the replies! I will use condor to train and will be aware to do all the checks, like in real life.

One last question, the set up: I mentioned in the start that I was planning to use the Logitech t16000m. Is this a good choice?

Or should I use force feedback? Like suggested with the MSFFB 2 (Will these work in win 10)

The rocker pedals looks nice, but quitte expensive I think.

Any other suggestions?
Last edited by kingmaddog on Mon May 08, 2017 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

janjansen
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:26 pm

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby janjansen » Sat May 06, 2017 10:02 am

MS FFB2 works fine in windows 10, its just plug and play.

Any other joystick will work too, but no other joystick on the market gives actual force feedback (well, there are a few others forcefeedback sticks that have been produced over the years, but they are rubbish). The force feedback is really nice, particularly in condor, for instance if you adjust the trim, the center of the stick actually moves forward/backward, which feels just like the real thing. But even aside from that, the MS FFB2 is just a a very good stick, very accurate and extremely durable.

Pedals are nice to have, but twisting the stick works well enough for me.

User avatar
Paul_UK
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:05 pm
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby Paul_UK » Sat May 06, 2017 11:55 am

I am keeping my eyes out for an MS FFB2 joystick, they don't come up for sale often. I assume you use the rotating throttle for airbrakes? I had an MS Sidewinder pro several years ago and recall that being the setup. I use a Saitek X52 pro currently which is quite a light stick movement wise and I like having the separate throttle to use for an airbrake lever. I'd like to keep the separate throttle lever for airbrakes and assume that this would be possible even with an MS FFB2 plugged in as well.

Having started as a twist stick rudder user and using that method for around 15 years when I first used rudder pedals I hated them, I simply had little coordination. Now I'm used to them and also started flying for real I would never go back to using twist stick rudder. It does suffice but using rudder pedals is the better experience in my opinion, especially if you plan to try and learn control movement coordination in turns to take it over to the real world.
Bronze by Spring......I hope!
Bronze C completed 3-4-2017 - Hoping worked :mrgreen:

User avatar
OXO
Condor Team
Posts: 4493
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:08 am

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby OXO » Sat May 06, 2017 12:58 pm

OXO,
Condor Team
Official facebook page

User avatar
Paul_UK
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:05 pm
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Use condor during winter to train for summer?

Postby Paul_UK » Sat May 06, 2017 3:25 pm

OXO wrote:http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=MS+FFB2&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xforce+feedback+2.TRS0&_nkw=force+feedback+2&_sacat=0


:o The credit card is going to get some abuse later! Still holding their price dammit.
Bronze by Spring......I hope!
Bronze C completed 3-4-2017 - Hoping worked :mrgreen:


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 11 guests