Word of advice on making use of thermals?

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MrTumnus
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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby MrTumnus » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:34 am

Fly into the lift, turn. If you fly out of the lift, straighten out after 270 degrees and makes sure you don't fly into the sink again. If you didn't find it after the 270 turn head back to the point where you first found the lift and you should find something. If you think you are on the outskirts of the thermal e.g. getting 4 kts on a 10kts day, straighten out of the turn when you get a surge in the lift. Once you are in the best lift to center better tighten the turn on the surges of lift and open out the turn when you hit the sink. To keep the attitude the same, set a nose position relative to the horizon, e.g. half aove, half below, make sure the speed is good e.g. 50-55kts, if it's too low, lower the nose slightly and vice versa until you find an attitude where the speed is good. Once you have a good attitude just fly keeping that attitue, don't focus on the ASI.

Hope this helps,

Dan.

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Freebird
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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby Freebird » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:59 am

MrTumnus wrote: Once you are in the best lift to center better tighten the turn on the surges of lift and open out the turn when you hit the sink
Dan.


That will move you away from the core. Do the opposite & you will move into the core, but to do it more efficiently widen the turn before you hit the strongest lift. 50-55kts (aprox 90-100kmh) is not much good in a fully ballasted glider @ 45deg bank angle (except open class), just remember that stalling speed depends on wing loading & bank angle.

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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby MrTumnus » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:42 pm

Freebird wrote:
MrTumnus wrote: Once you are in the best lift to center better tighten the turn on the surges of lift and open out the turn when you hit the sink
Dan.


That will move you away from the core. Do the opposite & you will move into the core, but to do it more efficiently widen the turn before you hit the strongest lift. 50-55kts (aprox 90-100kmh) is not much good in a fully ballasted glider @ 45deg bank angle (except open class), just remember that stalling speed depends on wing loading & bank angle.


If you strat tightening on the sink you will just spend more time flying in sink.

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Freebird
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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby Freebird » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:08 am

No you get back into the lift quicker :) but don't wait for the for the sink start adjusting the turn as the lift decreases or in the opposite case increases.

Don't want to start an argument but I never had a problem quickly centering thermals in RL or Condor & use exactly the same technique for both .

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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby MrTumnus » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:56 pm

Freebird wrote:No you get back into the lift quicker :) but don't wait for the for the sink start adjusting the turn as the lift decreases or in the opposite case increases.

Don't want to start an argument but I never had a problem quickly centering thermals in RL or Condor & use exactly the same technique for both .


You have to have a general idea of where the thermal core is and with that knowledge plus tightening on surges you will center.

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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby OXO » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:02 pm

MrTumnus wrote:
Freebird wrote:No you get back into the lift quicker :) but don't wait for the for the sink start adjusting the turn as the lift decreases or in the opposite case increases.

Don't want to start an argument but I never had a problem quickly centering thermals in RL or Condor & use exactly the same technique for both .


You have to have a general idea of where the thermal core is and with that knowledge plus tightening on surges you will center.


I think you are confusing tightening on surges with resisting the tendency for surges to roll you out of the thermal.

You centering technique will certainly not work.
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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby Strider69 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:40 pm

It's all too confusing for me, I just turn after hitting the stronger part, If i feel i turned the wrong way i will head back to just before i started to get the lift then turn again wider than the original turn. Then after i have landed !!!! :lol: :lol:
Basil Fawlty (RCB)

MrTumnus
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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby MrTumnus » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:45 pm

OXO wrote:
MrTumnus wrote:
Freebird wrote:No you get back into the lift quicker :) but don't wait for the for the sink start adjusting the turn as the lift decreases or in the opposite case increases.

Don't want to start an argument but I never had a problem quickly centering thermals in RL or Condor & use exactly the same technique for both .


You have to have a general idea of where the thermal core is and with that knowledge plus tightening on surges you will center.


I think you are confusing tightening on surges with resisting the tendency for surges to roll you out of the thermal.

You centering technique will certainly not work.


This is the technique of a Regional Competition winning pilot with 3 Diamonds. It works in reality.

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OXO
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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby OXO » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:53 am

MrTumnus wrote:This is the technique of a Regional Competition winning pilot with 3 Diamonds. It works in reality.


Post a replay demonstrating this technique please.
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TimKuijpers
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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby TimKuijpers » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:14 am

English is not my native language so I had to use a translator and try to understand what Mr Tumnus said.
But I think he is right, when you hit a strong part of the lift you can increase bank in order to stay in that stronger part.
The thing is that it's useless to circle with more than 60 degrees of bank, so in order to use this technique you first need to circle quite flat.

Just to try and understand this technique:
If you are flying straight and hit a good lift, you need to tighten your circle.
If you are flying with 10 degrees of bank, it's logical you need to turn steeper in order to center.
But somewhere it stops, if you fly 70 degrees of bank, you may increase to 80, but it won't help.
Think positive, flaps negative.

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macsimc
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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby macsimc » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:30 am

I tend to use both methods , the tighten on sink for initial centering and this one for adjustments

"Despite the enormous importance of climbing quickly in thermals, this is one of most controversial topics in free flying. Most people want to be taught a prescriptive technique for thermalling, and this is where the confusion begins. There are two widely-taught techniques, but they appear to be completely contradictory. The tighten-on-the-surge theory says that when the vario indicates the greatest climb rate, you should increase the angle of bank. In apparent contrast, the second theory says you should widen out when encountering the strongest lift. So how do we resolve this contradiction ? The answer is that both theories are right, but they are appropriate in different situations."

http://www.expandingknowledge.com/Jerom ... Part_1.htm

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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby OXO » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:52 am

What I really disagree with is decreasing the bank when flying out of the best lift. This will just move your circle out of the lift.
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MrTumnus
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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby MrTumnus » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:51 pm

TimKuijpers wrote:English is not my native language so I had to use a translator and try to understand what Mr Tumnus said.
But I think he is right, when you hit a strong part of the lift you can increase bank in order to stay in that stronger part.
The thing is that it's useless to circle with more than 60 degrees of bank, so in order to use this technique you first need to circle quite flat.

Just to try and understand this technique:
If you are flying straight and hit a good lift, you need to tighten your circle.
If you are flying with 10 degrees of bank, it's logical you need to turn steeper in order to center.
But somewhere it stops, if you fly 70 degrees of bank, you may increase to 80, but it won't help.


Tim's right. You end up gettig in the best lift and it's a technique taught to me by a competition winning pilot in real life. It works, especially in weak conditions like in England where I fly. On a normal day in England you will 3-4kt climbs and tightening the turn when in the strongest lift does work.

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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby MrTumnus » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:53 pm

OXO wrote:What I really disagree with is decreasing the bank when flying out of the best lift. This will just move your circle out of the lift.


If you fly in reality, try it next time you fly. It does work.

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Re: Word of advice on making use of thermals?

Postby OXO » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:38 pm

MrTumnus wrote:
OXO wrote:What I really disagree with is decreasing the bank when flying out of the best lift. This will just move your circle out of the lift.


If you fly in reality, try it next time you fly. It does work.


I do. I did. It doesn't.

Like I said, post a condor replay showing this technique.
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