The Netherlands/west Germany

Everything related to creation of new sceneries for Condor...

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Peet
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Location: Netherlands
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Postby Peet » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:36 pm

H Buikstra,
What have you got ? any (detailed) aerials? if yes, from where did you get them? Are they legal useable?
You can send them if you don´t have the time to work on the scenery

I have a basic scenery file, only have to fill it with aerials.. read previous messages in this thread.

Peter jan

H Buikstra
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Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 1:58 pm

Postby H Buikstra » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:36 pm

Hi Peet,
I just expirimented with a small strip of scenery of haamstede were my son fly's
No fancy decals like google view etc etc.
just the airfield
So no big files of scenery from my side sorry.
But i can help you with placing trees, buildings.
even making the decals for the buildings.
To keep this thread going you need to keep things organised or it will die a soft dead.
Who is doing what and what part..
It would be nice to have a holland scenery even that it is flat and has no hills.
There is a way of extracting pictures from GE

Harry
Image

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Jip
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Postby Jip » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:34 pm

Hi,

I'm also interested in creating scenery for the Netherlands. If needed, starting with only parts of the country.

H Buikstra wrote:There is a way of extracting pictures from GE


I know several ways of obtaining the source images for Google maps (or earth). But there are some problems:

1. Writing my own application for downloading the source images from Google's keyhole server works. However, there is a problem. When the server detects that it is not Google Earth, after a while it will block the IP for several hours or a day. For some reason I get random results: sometimes I can download big areas but sometimes not.

2. Reading the General Terms of Google (maps), reveals some interesting things, in particular this one (sorry, it's in Dutch) :

U mag het beeldmateriaal, geheel of gedeeltelijk, niet kopiëren, onderwerpen aan reverse engineering, decompileren, demonteren, vertalen, aanpassen of afgeleide werken hiervan maken. U mag het beeldmateriaal of een gedeelte daarvan ook niet verhuren, openbaar maken, publiceren, verkopen, toewijzen, leasen, in sublicentie geven, op de markt brengen of overdragen of gebruiken op een manier die niet expliciet wordt toegestaan onder deze overeenkomst.

Door Google Maps te gebruiken ontvangt u geen eigendomsrechten voor het beeldmateriaal en Google en/of haar licentiegevers (indien van toepassing) behouden alle eigendomsrechten voor het beeldmateriaal. Het beeldmateriaal is auteursrechtelijk beschermd en mag niet worden gekopieerd, zelfs niet als dit is aangepast of samengevoegd met andere gegevens of software.


Now this can be interpreted on several ways.
They say that we cannot reverse engineer, or even copy the images or bundle them with other software.
Our biggest argument to simply use Google maps images for our scenery, is that we have no commercial intentions.

Also, the UK HD sceneries seems to use Google's satellite images (can anyone confirm this?)
Click here for screenshots, to see how nice it can get!


Anyhow, I'll try to continue with this project, as I would definitely think that creating photorealistic scenery for the Netherlands has big advantages:
- Just for the fun
- Ideal for preparing and exploring the area of real gliding competitions!


regards,
Jip
Last edited by Jip on Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Jip
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Postby Jip » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:39 pm

[edit] sorry, double post, this can be deleted. [/edit]

H Buikstra
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Postby H Buikstra » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:07 am

Have tryed the software as well jip but i don't get any images.
I know that images cant be exactly the same as in GE deu to copyrights but if you even change a small part of image then it isn't an image of google anymore.
But more something you created yourself ;)
Have any one made the landscape without the the hires tiles?
The calibrated map.

Harry
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Jip
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Postby Jip » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:58 am

This evening, I actually started working on the Scenery.
The Netherlands is quite large for full high-res. Therefore, I'm starting with the province Friesland because that's where I come from, and where our gliding club is based.

I carefully followed the steps from the Scenery Toolkit manual, and some tutorials, this actually works.
Also I calibrated a Heightmap based on the real NASA measurement data, so this works too (not very exiting for the flat NL though!)


Here are some small previews of the work in progress:

Image

Image

Note the black areas, this means that I'm not done with texuring yet (only 1/6 part of the province done now).
Also I'm planning to make a higher resolution version, because currently you have to fly pretty high for a reasonable view.

But still, it's a start :)

regards,
Jip

PS; we kunnen eventueel ook wel in het nederlands over gaan denk ik?

Love2Fly
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Postby Love2Fly » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:55 am

Looks very promising Jip!

From Zweefportaal, Roel Baardman:
(sorry, it's Dutch)

WorldWind is gratis en open source, dus als zij 't ongestrafd mogen gebruiken kan je er eens naar kijken.
Mijn ervaring is dat veel data beschikbaar is, zodra je 't non-profit gebruikt (en misschien wat credits geeft hier en daar).
Google eens naar WorldWind!


Also, you should contact Tom Eagles about MIP Mapping..
On the screenshot, you are @ 2100m.. what happens when you get lower?
Image
Frank Hiemstra - Dutch Gliding Team & GliderTracking.com

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Jip
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Condor Scenery NL

Postby Jip » Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:38 am

Thanks for the reference Frank, looking for his posts on this forum helped a lot!
BTW: as far as I know Worldwind offers only very low resolution for NL (last time I tried it).

Love2Fly wrote:On the screenshot, you are @ 2100m.. what happens when you get lower?

Below a certain altitude, the Earth-Shield will be enabled, and your glider will be launched into deepspace :shock: :shock: :shock:
But seriously, explained below.

---------

Ok, small update:

Now I use a different (legal) image source. The resolution is about as high as Google offers, so enough for Condor (way too high in fact).
After reading some other threads here, I come to the following conclusion for the individual tile resolutions:

2K - 2048x2048: Not really nice (only acceptable from high altitudes, the screenshots in my last post have 2K tiles)
4K - 4096x4096: Ok/average (not really thrilling)
8K - 8192x8192: Good, but high PC specs needed to prevent FPS drop.

I'm only talking about photorealistic (aerial) textures here, not standard Terragen.

The problem for The Netherlands, is that it's almost completely flat. This means that to make the scenery nice, we are almost forced to use photorealistic (high resolution) textures.
If there are big mountains, using high resolution is also nice, but less necessary compared to NL. (see default condor scenery: almost all fictive terragen textures).

For Mip mapping purposes, the tiles are stored in different sizes in the DDS files. I currently have the problem that my video card only seems to read the 4K versions from the DDS files, so I haven't been able to test 8K yet!


I have currently a part of the province Friesland completed in high 8K resolution. Friesland is covered by about 15 tiles.
When I'm finished for just this province, the size will be around 600 Mb.
You can imagine how big the whole NL would become!

This is probably the obvious reason why there is no complete scenery for NL yet.


However, I'm not giving up. The solution would be to have tiles in different resolution. Interesting places, airfields, etc: 8K, the rest 4K or less.
Any thoughts?

I'd like to create an overview for the NL scenery, so could anyone please post the place/field here you'd like to see in high res?
Last edited by Jip on Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jip
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Re: Condor Scenery NL

Postby Jip » Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:54 am

again double post, can be deleted...
(to forum admin: please enable the PHPBB setting so users can delete their own posts!)
Last edited by Jip on Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jesper1100
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:12 pm

Hi Res places

Postby jesper1100 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:10 am

HE,

Maby you can set the big city's in 8k and all the glider fields.
You can delete all the see. In holland we have a lot 8)
I you need some help i can help you but i am not a programmer :wink:

tnx

Love2Fly
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Re: Condor Scenery NL

Postby Love2Fly » Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:35 pm

Jip wrote:I'd like to create an overview for the NL scenery, so could anyone please post the place/field here you'd like to see in high res?

Great explanation Jip, thanks!
Off course, the most of Holland glider fields have to be in the scenery?
Except for the military airfields..

Have a look for an overview of all Dutch glider fields:
http://www.zweefportaal.nl/main/articles.php?article_id=5
Image
Frank Hiemstra - Dutch Gliding Team & GliderTracking.com

unibrein
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Re: Condor Scenery NL

Postby unibrein » Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:53 pm

Jip wrote:I'd like to create an overview for the NL scenery, so could anyone please post the place/field here you'd like to see in high res?


zie hier het NK keerpuntenbestand

"TERLET Airfield",
TERLET,NL,5203.400N,00555.400E,85.0m,4,0,0.0m,"130,125",
"Aerodrome reference point"

Is ofcourse most important!!!

Pierre.v.d.Elshout
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Postby Pierre.v.d.Elshout » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:13 am

Image
Image
Glider-Equipment.nl

H Buikstra
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Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 1:58 pm

Postby H Buikstra » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:30 pm

Hi pierre looking great!!!
Now the rest of the netherlands.
Are these GE images?
Or do you use another image source?
Have tried to do something with the elevation data of zeeland, only problem is that the hight data of land mass is disapearing into seelevel.
In that way you don't get a nice "sea/land" border and have to draw all these borders by hand.
Harry
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Jip
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Postby Jip » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:37 pm

Forgot to add screenshots on this forum too;

Image
(Sneekermeer)

Image
(Afsluitdijk)

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Future status of this project is however pending, although I don't use Google's images (see france/grenoble HD thread).
Friese Aero Club - The Netherlands
Condor Fan, Orbiter Addon developer


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