CONDOR

The Competition Soaring Simulator
It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:31 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Ultralight Sailplanes?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:22 am
Posts: 69
Location: Bangkok
After several years of googling about sailplanes, I've noticed several models of sailplanes have "ultralight" added.

Has anyone thought about adding ultralight sailplanes into Condor? Like as another plane pack? :D Feel free to discuss about them!

_________________
Image

Thailand's sole glider pilot of Condor...
HS-EVA (ECE)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:26 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Enschede, Netherlands
As most pilots on here would rather have a real glider, I don't think there will be much demand for an Ultralight class. (Ultralight gliders are basically just glorified hanggliders imho)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:22 am
Posts: 69
Location: Bangkok
Mr. Ike wrote:
As most pilots on here would rather have a real glider, I don't think there will be much demand for an Ultralight class. (Ultralight gliders are basically just glorified hanggliders imho)
I'm talking like the AMS Apis or something.... :wink:

_________________
Image

Thailand's sole glider pilot of Condor...
HS-EVA (ECE)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:24 am
Posts: 54
those ultralight sailplanes have a very small wingload and so they have a very bad glide ratio at higher speeds.
I don't see many people flying with the k13 or pw-5, so i guess there wont be many people flying ultralight-sailplanes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:22 am
Posts: 69
Location: Bangkok
DiscusCSflyer wrote:
those ultralight sailplanes have a very small wingload and so they have a very bad glide ratio at higher speeds.
I don't see many people flying with the k13 or pw-5, so i guess there wont be many people flying ultralight-sailplanes.
I'm probably going to save up and buy a Silent 2 Targa or Apis for real. I don't want to blast my pocket with a Vents 2cxm... or DG808

Kinda sad because these planes are more affordable and yet will do 40:1. You can still rent a DG for competitions or something...

_________________
Image

Thailand's sole glider pilot of Condor...
HS-EVA (ECE)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:24 am
Posts: 54
did you already think about buying a "used" glider?For the price of an silent 2 or apis you'll get a dg400!
or if you buy a non self-launching glider you'll get newer std. class or old 15-m class(ventus b) with turbo.
yes,they may have a glide ratio of 40 but for example a std-libelle is equal with the silent 2 already at about 110km/h and with the optiopn of the libelle to improve the wingloading with water ballast it's polar is even better.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:22 am
Posts: 69
Location: Bangkok
DiscusCSflyer wrote:
did you already think about buying a "used" glider?For the price of an silent 2 or apis you'll get a dg400!
or if you buy a non self-launching glider you'll get newer std. class or old 15-m class(ventus b) with turbo.
yes,they may have a glide ratio of 40 but for example a std-libelle is equal with the silent 2 already at about 110km/h and with the optiopn of the libelle to improve the wingloading with water ballast it's polar is even better.
Thanks for the suggestions :wink:

But what I'm worried about the DG400 is safety. Out of 2-3 crashes I've found out of the DG400, the pilots were killed. Possibly more from pilot error, but...still worried..

I am heavily in need of a self launcher, unless Thailand can REALLY kick-start a full-house gliding club with winches and towplanes. Therefore, I'm cornered to get a self-launcher once I can afford one & get pilot training. Ultralight would be better since you can easily rig-derig one man. :wink:

_________________
Image

Thailand's sole glider pilot of Condor...
HS-EVA (ECE)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:40 pm
Posts: 2415
Location: North Wales UK
Quote:
Ultralight would be better since you can easily rig-derig one man


I used to rig my Kestrel 19 on my own & quite quickly :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:24 am
Posts: 54
as already said,the rigging of a sailplane is not much more difficult than the rigging of an ultralight plane.
and the kestrel 19 has extremely heavy wings as far as i can remember^^
i never heard from bad behavior of the dg400 and there are many dg's flying around in my region.
it would be helpful if you may post how you are gliding?
ridge,thermal or a mix,because if you have strong winds in your country(i have no idea of gliding in thailamnd :))you really should buy a plane which has a hgher wingloading than an ultralight one.
greetz


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:33 am
Posts: 3198
Location: The Netherlands
Freebird wrote:
I used to rig my Kestrel 19 on my own & quite quickly :)

Now you walk like an old man because of that ;)

_________________
Think positive, flaps negative.
Image
Dutch (Junior) Gliding Team


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:22 am
Posts: 69
Location: Bangkok
DiscusCSflyer wrote:
as already said,the rigging of a sailplane is not much more difficult than the rigging of an ultralight plane.
and the kestrel 19 has extremely heavy wings as far as i can remember^^
i never heard from bad behavior of the dg400 and there are many dg's flying around in my region.
it would be helpful if you may post how you are gliding?
ridge,thermal or a mix,because if you have strong winds in your country(i have no idea of gliding in thailamnd :))you really should buy a plane which has a hgher wingloading than an ultralight one.
greetz
Hmm, then I must avoid that Kestrel thingy then... :mrgreen:

Anyways, I don't think the DG400 has any bad behaviors; it's just the crashes of that Model that make me irky. I also feel irky about the Nimbus 4DM after finding out about the high crash rate. Maybe I should forbid myself from reading about those accident reports.

As for Thailand, I don't glide for real yet, and very eager to get lessons asap. And as for lift sources, I believe 70-80% of the time would be thermals & convergence. The norths, like Chieng Mai during the winter, high possiblity of ridge lift, or if I'm lucky, there might be wave conditions! I have to study more of the meteorology if I want to really kick start soaring here.

And what about the wing loading issue? :o

_________________
Image

Thailand's sole glider pilot of Condor...
HS-EVA (ECE)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:24 am
Posts: 54
if your wingload is higher,that means mostly that the glider has a bigger mass,then your best glide ratio is at a higher speed.
ultralight sailplanes may have a good glide ratio,but they are very light(name :D)and so their wing loading is not as big as that from normal gliders.that means at higher speeds their sink rate is getting much bigger then on comparable gliders.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:32 pm
Posts: 733
Location: Herkenbosch, NL
DiscusCSflyer wrote:
if your wingload is higher,that means mostly that the glider has a bigger mass,then your best glide ratio is at a higher speed.
ultralight sailplanes may have a good glide ratio,but they are very light(name :D)and so their wing loading is not as big as that from normal gliders.that means at higher speeds their sink rate is getting much bigger then on comparable gliders.


Which means that you'll have problems gliding against strong winds in a ultralight glider.

_________________
PH-2729, WS
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:22 am
Posts: 69
Location: Bangkok
This is going to be tough.... :?

But I'll probably have plenty of time to think about it :)

Thanks!

_________________
Image

Thailand's sole glider pilot of Condor...
HS-EVA (ECE)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:06 pm
Posts: 883
Location: Bergen,Norway
I wouldn't concern about the crashrate at all. As far as I know, most crashes occour of human error. "Normal gliders" are flown MUCH more than ultralightgliders around the world. It will be wrong only to look at number of incidents/crashes rather than crashes per flight etc.. and still, it makes sence to me to think that the more popular gliders will have more accidents per flight withouth beeing less safe.(more used as "aeroclub-planes" aso..) Also, I recon ultralight gliders aren't flown much in contests etc.. wich will increase the risk of an accident. A DG400, Libelle or a Cirrus though, is commonly used in competitions.
I would look at prising and also try to find something most suitable for your needs rather than accidents. When you believe you have found yourself a specific glider to buy though, I think it becomes much more relevant to look at that perticular glider's safetyrecord and earlier treathment.
I'm not an expert or have much excperience. Just my thoughts based on some basic knowledge and sence.

/Kristoffer

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group