Multi Monitor Support

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Slartibartfast
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby Slartibartfast » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:10 am

janjansen wrote:...Its hard to miss how the cloud changed shape, became larger and stretched out, by almost 2x, just because its being rendered on the edge rather than the center of the screen.


I'm assuming here that you are rendering a wider field of view than the screen actually fills, yeah?

It's kind of hard to tell what the FoV is in those shots but presumably if the FoV were say 45° and the monitor really was 45° from edge to edge you would actually want that stretching to occur in order to balance out the fact that that edge of the monitor is that much further away. It only looks 'wrong' if that edge is less far away than the rendering engine intends for it to be (by rendering say a 60° FoV in a monitor that is only say 30°).

It's also worth noting that that cloud (along with the ground and everything else on the edge there) is also 'stretched' vertically as well as horizontally so it's 'shape' as such actually remains the same, it's just larger, which is why it doesn't appear "smeared".

timbaeyens
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby timbaeyens » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:12 am

Although Jan's last example is quite extreme, one thing has not been discussed here.

Human vision has distorted peripheral vision as well. Our brain however learns to interpret what it 'sees' as normal.

A wide, strongly curved screen, or a triple angled to wrap-around screen setup, used together with headtracking could in theory be very close to how we see in real life.

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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby Slartibartfast » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:38 am

I don't know much about the distortion of our peripheral vision but I can't imagine it really being anything that needs to be taken into consideration as such.

If our eyes suffer from optical anomalies (which I'm willing to grant they almost certainly do), then, if the screens were to be drawing what the "real world" would look like at the far edge than our eyes would inflict the same 'edge distortion' on our view of the monitors as it does the real world and thus appear 'correct'.

If we can re-create as true rendering of the real world as possible our biological distortions should take care of them selves and I would think any attempts to second guess them would in fact be counter productive.

Edit: Oh, I just re-read your post timbaeyens.
Are you saying bringing a wide view into a smaller arc potentially removes 'biological distortions' and that really the best thing to do is to have peripheral objects render in out periphery? In that case, yes. I completely agree :D
Last edited by Slartibartfast on Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

janjansen
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby janjansen » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:41 am

I'm assuming here that you are rendering a wider field of view than the screen actually fills, yeah?


IM not sure what you mean. Its a straight screenshot. If you meant zoom level, its zoomed out, as most people will fly condor almost all the time.

It's kind of hard to tell what the FoV is in those shots but presumably if the FoV were say 45° and the monitor really was 45° from edge to edge you would actually want that stretching to occur in order to balance out the fact that that edge of the monitor is that much further away. It only looks 'wrong' if that edge is less far away than the rendering engine intends for it to be (by rendering say a 60° FoV in a monitor that is only say 30°).


What you say is true, if the FOV in the game matched the FOV Im seeing on my monitor. But thats not how you fly a sim, unless perhaps you have 6+ large monitors curved around you. Im guessing fully zoomed in, so that the instrument panel fills my screen, the FOV would roughly match real life for my monitor and distance:

Image

Doing that may take care of the stretching, but can you fly condor like that? Not really. Put it this way, imagine you where flying with a cardboard box over your head, and a cutout that matches your screen size at the same distance. You cant fly like that, thats why you always have a larger FOV in game, ie, you zoom out.

It's also worth noting that that cloud (along with the ground and everything else on the edge there) is also 'stretched' vertically as well as horizontally so it's 'shape' as such actually remains the same, it's just larger, which is why it doesn't appear "smeared".


The shape also changes. It stretches a little vertically, but much more horizontally.

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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby tom eagles » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:08 am

"Aside from the fact condor doesnt even support UWHD resolution ? "

I should have made it clearer that I was talking about V2 having no issues with UWHD monitors and I see no stretching etc. of any kind, no distortion etc. So how about simply leaving this discussion at this point. You have the information that is going to be released at this point and that's that no amount of conjecture is going to change things.
Image

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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby Slartibartfast » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:20 am

janjansen wrote:
I'm assuming here that you are rendering a wider field of view than the screen actually fills, yeah?


IM not sure what you mean. Its a straight screenshot. If you meant zoom level, its zoomed out, as most people will fly condor almost all the time.

Yes, that is what I meant. And yes, it would be completely infeasible to fly like that unless you have a surround setup.

janjansen wrote:Doing that may take care of the stretching, but can you fly condor like that? Not really. Put it this way, imagine you where flying with a cardboard box over your head, and a cutout that matches your screen size at the same distance. You cant fly like that, thats why you always have a larger FOV in game, ie, you zoom out.

Yeah, I agree. In fact I gave almost the exact same "cardboard box" analogy a few posts back —though admittedly it was in the middle of an otherwise fairly dense and uninspiring block of text :mrgreen:

The reason I mentioned it was to explain the distortion even though it was a flat rendering being displayed on a flat screen. I probably shouldn't have said as much though as it's just going to muddy the waters.


janjansen wrote:The shape also changes. It stretches a little vertically, but much more horizontally.

That is most curious. I'm going to have to think about that more...
My understanding of rectilinear projection was that it would enlarge both axis equally. If you're saying that's not the case, hmmm... I'm going to have to do some more thunken.

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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby Slartibartfast » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:24 am

tom eagles wrote:"Aside from the fact condor doesnt even support UWHD resolution ? "

I should have made it clearer that I was talking about V2 having no issues with UWHD monitors...

Oh, I see.

And your "And that's the only comment I am making!" comment makes more sence too now.
Good to hear :D :D

janjansen
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby janjansen » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:31 am

tom eagles wrote:"Aside from the fact condor doesnt even support UWHD resolution ? "

I should have made it clearer that I was talking about V2 having no issues with UWHD monitors and I see no stretching etc. of any kind, no distortion etc. So how about simply leaving this discussion at this point. You have the information that is going to be released at this point and that's that no amount of conjecture is going to change things.


I wasnt aware you were beta testing V2. Of course, this begs the question, how well does V2 cope with multiple monitors? You mention monitorS, but Im not sure that you meant it as such. If it doesnt stretch and distort on a triple screen setup, thats fantastic news.

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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby OXO » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:35 am

Tom is in Alpha testing, because he is making the new super swanky website. Don't press him too much for details, because we have him under NDA. :D
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janjansen
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby janjansen » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:51 am

Feel free to answer the question yourself OXO?

Alternatively, totally unrelated to condor V2, Tom do you have a triple screen setup ? :D

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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby OXO » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:56 am

Image
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phercek
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby phercek » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:51 pm

Of course, clouds on the sides of the janjansen's monitors are stretched. We see them stretched because we are looking at an image which was rendered lets say under 110° FOV. But when we look at the image as it is posted on this message board then we look at them with very tiny FOV.
The options are fixing the game rendering FOV, or monitor viewing FOV (i.e. monitor head distance), or keep these two FOVs misaligned and imperfectly compensate with cylindrical rendering.

OXO: For that note to be true, we need an assumption that function that measures "worth having" over time is not decreasing. That is often not true. E.g. worthHavingWaterToDrink(time) function typically grows from 0 to a very high value in about 3 days in the future. Then it drops to zero :D

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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby OXO » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:30 pm

phercek wrote:OXO: For that note to be true, we need an assumption that function that measures "worth having" over time is not decreasing. That is often not true. E.g. worthHavingWaterToDrink(time) function typically grows from 0 to a very high value in about 3 days in the future. Then it drops to zero :D


f(x) = 2^x

The longer you have to wait, the better it will be.
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phercek
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby phercek » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:12 pm

:D, pretty good. Though Gamma(x+1) would be more impressive.
I'm sure some community members feel like that :)

janjansen
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Re: Multi Monitor Support

Postby janjansen » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:45 pm

we'll be waiting whether you chose to answer questions or not.
And, while I agree with the second part of that sentence, the first one doesnt follow from that. Seems like an obvious non sequitur.
To prove my point:

Image


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